you said that redemption was not included in the will of the Father. Would you mind

making your meaning clear?

B.--My meaning was that in the will of God, speaking of it "after the manner of men",

He appointed His heirs, and their place in His purpose. The question of their possible fall

and need for redemption does not figure therein, but is indicated by a special term in the

section which is connected with "the work of the Son".

A.--My own conception of the subject is that God's Fatherly love could never have been

manifested or experienced had not sin given it the necessary background of hatred and

distance, and that sin was as much the purpose of God as any other part of His creation.

B.--I know there are some who do not hesitate to say that God would never have known

the sweet response of love apart from sin, but such is not the truth. In John 17: 23 the

Lord Jesus says of the Father:--

Unless you are prepared therefore to say that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is the chief

of sinners, you must confess that those who teach that it was necessary for God to plunge

men into sin and wickedness in order to show how much He loved them, are perilously

near to becoming blasphemous. Imagine a father exposing his sons and his daughters to

lives of shame and vice, so that when they had sounded the depths of degradation and sin

he could show his fatherly love in their reconciliation! The idea is monstrous, and only

gains in its terrible character as it is suggested of God the Father.

A.--I am afraid I had not looked at the subject in that light, and certainly feel it does not

square with John 17: 23. Yet God loved the world of sinners, and Christ died for such.

B.--That is blessedly true. It is one thing to believe that God's love is such that neither

sin nor death can alter it or make it fail of its purpose; it is quite another thing to teach

that He plunged us all into sin in order to impart to His creatures the delicious sense of

His Fatherly affection.

A.--Yet redemption cannot be something outside the will of God.

B.--That is true, and you will find that Eph. 1: employs a special term when dealing

with it. Let us turn once again to Eph. 1: and notice the passages which speak of God's

A.--(Reads Eph. 1: 5):--